“But the HTML5 canvas capabilities, WebGL, CSS3, these are things that will purportedly render the Flash plugin unnecessary and eventually obselete. The video tag takes care of the rest.”

Really? How do I create music and sound effects for a game with HTML5?

These are the last few remaining features that Flash is useful for right now….sound APIs, webcam APIs, raw sockets… But I wouldn't doubt that they will be properly integrated into the browser itself over time.

LMGTFY, I assume you don't mean literally how to create the sound effects, but instead mean how to play multiple audio clips with HTML5.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1933969/soun…

Honestly I'd love to see some unity in web languages but I doubt this is the answer. First off, this requires writing some of the site in Actionscript/CS4 authoring environment, and AS3 is still a mess, so even though you'll have HTML5 and Javascript in your site which represent Actionscript, no one (and I mean, NO ONE) will want to debug that generated code. Ever seen Flex's generated Actionscript? This doesn't help to unify web languages, it just gives Adobe a way to continue to propagate their messy design practices into the proportionately cleaner HTML5 space. Let's just kill splash pages once and for all, shall we? Flash solves a million problems poorly and none (video, gaming, applications) well. Let Flash die, and Adobe with it, and let other companies develop tools specific to the individual web task.

Can you explain how relying on Adobe to fix a player bug is worse than relying on Microsoft, Mozilla, Apple and Google to fix one? And to fix it in the same way?

Let's see:

Mozilla Firefox: open source
Apple's Safari: Based on open source Webkit
Google Chrome: Based on open source Webkit

Microsoft? I'll give you that, given that they created the disaster that was IE6, and no one had any hope of fixing its egregious bugs since Microsoft itself did not prioritize it highly enough. Sound familiar?

gee i don't know: http://9elements.com/io/projects/html5/canvas/

[...] full post on Hacker News If you enjoyed this article, please consider sharing it! Tagged with: Adobe • [...]

This is just how Google GWT works. Developer writes and debugs in Java. GWT compiles to browser optimized HTML/CSS/Javascript. Doesnt Laszlo also do this? Originally Laszlo produced Flash-code but now it also produces HTML/Javascript.

So it can be done and it is the only way forward for Adobe.

“In my opinion, the best way for Adobe to save Flash (the development and authoring environment) is by killing Flash (the plugin), and targeting a HTML5 runtime directly.”

…uhm… ah, which one…?

“So, Adobe, embrace the upcoming open web standards, and build a world class development environment that helps define how the next generation of developers program for the web, or hang on to the sinking ship that is the Flash plugin….”

Next version of Dreamweaver's shooting for the Opera/GOOG/AAPL/Moz browsers, but that-all is still a bit of a moving target.

jd/adobe

Being open source is completely irrelevant. Are you going to patch the bug? And then submit it and wait for Mozilla to roll it in? Then wait for your audience to upgrade their browsers?

The only difference between browser bugs and Flash bugs is that with browsers you've got 3 to 5 vendors to deal with instead of 1, and people generally upgrade their browsers slower than they do Flash Player.

The rest of your argument aside, you can't possibly claim that browser bugs are easier to overcome than Flash bugs. They suck at least as bad.

Yeah, you're pretty much a dumb ass, man. Here are just a few reasons – off the top of my head – why Flash isn't going anywhere anytime soon:

- 98% of web browsers have it installed
- Instant cross browser compatibility (FAR more important than the cross platform point)
- Thousands of developers will still champion Flash (new standards are not easy to learn)
- Billions of dollars a year are generated from developing and publishing flash products
- Flash is the standard for casual online games (social network games are exploding)

Awesome post. See my latest one at samj.net for why I believe it's already dead.

He's not suggesting that developers won't be able to use Flash anymore: he's suggesting that Adobe permit compiling to HTML5 via their authoring environment, as opposed to using their closed source plugin. Developers would still be able to be create games, etc, without having to learn a new language, and maintain their current codebases. This would be all on Adobe, not on Flash game developers.
Before calling someone a dumbass, I'd highly recommend taking a look in the mirror, where those comments might be put to better use.

Ah nice. FUD from the Adobe paid shill that the HTML5 standard is a moving target. What next

jd/adobe, is that you ?

Just get Microsoft to make IE8 support HTML5 and I will give your argument credit.

At least with open source projects you have the option to submit a patch yourself.

I would argue that with the rise of mobile browsers on your iPhones and Nexus Ones and modern browsers on the desktop, the average time between browser upgrades has been significantly reduced due to automatic updates. I upgrade Firefox all the time (rather, it upgrades itself completely painlessly without me even noticing).

If there is replacement for Flash, there is no point Flash will be still viable. Certainly Flash will not die in a day. But if html5 was implemented across platforms consistently and there were decent development tools, fade out would be unavoidable.

There are arguments on number of installation base and developer. The same can apply to COBOL, FORTRAN, and more. For developer, if there is something easier, cheaper and better, they will move. For consumer, 100% do not want Flash, Internet Explorer, Microsoft Windows at all; they just want to do what they want but forced to do it this way or that way.

Dear Anonymouse

please can you point me to a URL which contains the final ratified HTML5 standard specification.

Thanks!

Clever girl. My point was that this kind of FUD is laughable. HTML5 is in “last call” status, and the important parts of the spec (e.g. canvas) are stable and implemented.

But good to see the panic rising. Bye bye, Flash.

Just because something is HTML5, doesnt mean it will load everywhere.

Try launching that url on an iPhone

I think you have got it wrong, Adobe should just build their own version of webkit with flash built in and use that in AIR and create an iphone/iad browser.

You could make the same point about svg and javascript over html5 canvas and javascript.

Also where are all these browsers that support html5 and canvas, the iphone does not support them fully.

If that's what Adobe has to do then they still have a good 4 to 5 years before it really is needed. HTML5 isn't coming to mainstream anytime soon.

Could we perhaps wait until HTML 5 is, if not a standard that at least broadly implemented, before suggesting it can replace something with 98% presence? Cross-platform compatibility is *never* free; it always costs something in terms of of performance, developer time etc

Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by stevenswei: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it http://bit.ly/bys44l...

Hey let's replace a tried and tested technolgy with wide user acceptance, 1 million developers and a 18 month uprade cycle with an experimental technology with multiple incompatible versions that's not supported on the most popular browser. HTML developers spend big chunks of time just getting text to look the same on different browsers. Now imagine that's a box2d physics game that integrates alpha channeled video and papervision 3d. And 1 more thing: tech is a moving target, and being closed technology allows flash to stay years ahead of browsers. Now HTML5 is missing webcam, sockets, alpha video but tomorrow it could be multitouch, joystick, VR goggles, gps etc etc

And neither do a ton of Flash methods … or UI events for touch screens.

A lot of HTML5 works fine on Mobile Safari/WebKit … the link above was an nice example of an extreme.

Silverlight should be on your list. It's not doing well, but Microsoft can't afford to let the Windows platform be replaced by a web platform where everything is fair. They have a long history of making good on bad software.

[...] Lentamente muore…il Flash Ci si chiede se il Flash fosse uno standard aperto cosa succederebbe, sia dall’ottica degli sviluppatori che degli utenti. E se già dal prossimo anno l’HTML 5 batterà davvero sia Flash che Silverlight o meglio Adobe farà morire il Flash. [...]

Cool post. I remember mucking with nspluginswrapper! Horrible stuff!

Ok, you hace to wait 6 months for a bug in Flash … but how long should you wait for a change in HTML specifications? And not because of being open software it would be better. If you develop plugins and you detect a bug in Firefox you also have to wait more than 6 months until it is solved. If it is solved …

Seriously…Canvas is a stable spec…har har. Ever really used it? Text support across browser in Canvas meh…shadows and gradients…not so much. Right now it is really low level and btw you can't click anything in it – its a rendered bit map so now lay a mother load of divs on top of everything or an image map and build your own collision detection system. I like it because in some areas it is fast because it is native but get real…it is not consistent cross browser and still very immature. Oh BTW Canvas was slagged on big time when Apple introduced it…said to be browser specific invented technology…my how we have short memories.

[...] The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it – Uncompiled Thoughts – [...]

[...] Adobe, save Flash: Kill it. [...]

Tried and tested? Perhaps we should all revert back to programming in COBOL and FORTRAN through serial terminals connected to mainframe timeshare systems via 200 baus acoustically-coupled telephone modems. THAT technology is even MORE tried and tested than plash, and was widely accepted for decades and legions of highly-educated developers!

Of course that's ridiculous–the technology is obsolete, time marches on. The same is the case with Flash. It has been obsolete for a few years now, and standards are finally starting to gain traction that make flash 100% redundant. Unless Luddites such as yourself manage to hold back progreess of the internet within 5 years Flash will be as shunned as custom ActiveX applets and IE6 are today–relegated to legacy corporate Intranets.

Even MSFT is dragging its big fat-filled butt into the 21st century in supporting more web standards, forced by giant content providers like Google/YouTube, Facebook and Wikipedia to shape up or be shut out, and ALL the big browsers that support Flash have added, or already support, PROPER standards like HTML5, CSS, SVG and Javascript, and are doing so in a way that is even SUPERIOR to the consistency provided by Flash.

You also present very mixed up logic–you say tech is a moving target, yet say that the closed nature of the Flash plugin allows it to be AHEAD? Forget about shoddily implemented, possibly dangerously insecure “features” like webcam support and sockets and fluff like alpha video, what about STABLILTY? What about supporting non-Intel hardware? What about non-MSFT OS platforms? What about 64-bit? Seems to me “open” web browser developers moved SIGNIFICANTLY faster than Adobe did on supporting ALL those essential issues.

Stop trying to claw onto a dead-end technology and learn something new and better. The last time COBOL was in real demand was to fix Y2K bugs over a decade ago and since then it is a stale and shrinking market. Recognise and accept that Flash is heading down that road at a faster pace than COBOL did and that if you aren't near retirement, it's time to seriously learn how to use emerging tech standards in preparation for a post-Flash internet.

YOU seem to be the one with the intellectually inferior posterior. You've missed the point entirely. Adobe has great dev tools and if they can target “flash” apps to native iPhone then can make them support proper standards based technology too. Furthermore ALL your points are pointless:

- 98% of all browsers already support, or will support very shortly, enough standards to completely replace Flash plugin (HTML5, CSS2/3, Javascript…)
- Flash has VERY poor cross-platform compatibility, in some ways inferior to the state of HTML. Sure, it's easy to make it LOOK the same, but it rarely RUNS the same, between Windows, Mac, Linux and mobile. Sometimes apps lock up, sometimes they have no sound, and don't get me started on how it can hijack focus, events, etc. of your web browser–it is an embedded control and it should know its place on a web page and mind its own business but it doesnt.
- thousands of developers knew CP/M, 16-bit DOS programming with direct BDOS, BIOS and hardware calls, and all sorts of evil, inferior obsolete ways of doing things on a PC. Good developers will evolve, bad developers who stick with the inferior will lose their jobs in the field forever, and good riddance.
- Flash is no standard, and nothing about ANY social networking platform prohibits games from being developed using something other than Flash. Furthermore, if Flash gets a reputation for being unacceptably insecure the way IE6 is, such sites may start exerting their influence by banning Flash apps. Unless Adobe improves the quality of its Flash plugins BIG TIME, with the advent of alternative standards-based technology makes this a real possibility in the next few years.

Different browsers have different implementations of JavaScript, which makes testing much harder. For simple apps, like a UI, HTML5 would be OK, but for a complex app, like a game, AS3 is by far a better choice. As the first person pointed out, getting something as complex as Box2D running the same across all browsers would be quite a big effort. The Flex from Adobe compiler isn't the greatest and AS3 may not be as smooth as Java, but it is much better than JavaScript, which doesn't have, for example, type checking (which actually makes development harder).
In addition, on a single machine, JavaScript performs differently on different browsers. If all the browsers used the JavaScript engine, then I'm board.
In addition, Flash is the standard for online games. Flash does some things great, like preloaders and DisplayObject composition.

Firstly, you didn't actually counter any of my points. Flash isn't obsolete, it's bigger than ever. There are new use cases all the time – massively popular facebook games like FarmVille being the latest example. I think Unity3d is pretty cool too. If using the latest technology makes me a Luddite, then count me in.

Stability is much more to do with the individual page or application – JavaScript and Flash both give you enough rope to hang yourself with 100% CPU etc. Flash is available of both Mac and Linux by the way. In fact Linux netbook users like it because it actually gives them access to some decent games.

I'm certainly not clawing onto anything – there's more Flash work available than ever. Nothing last for ever, but get back to me when Youtube etc ditch Flash. It may be some time…

Well, explain this: when you use a proprietary technology implemented by a single vendor, and then that one implementation has a VERY serious security bugn and the vendor takes a month to fix it, what do you do for an alternative? You are SOL and at the mercy of Adobe, and lord help you if it isn't serious enough to fix because you could wait for YEARS for a fix.

Rarely does a serious browser bug affect ALL browsers. If IE has a bad bug, you can, for FREE, install a Mozilla/Gecko- or Webkit-based browser in MINUTES. Provides incentive to MSFT to fix the bug (same if it is the other way around–a FF bug will get fixed quickly if it means losing market to IE if they don't).

Have you learned nothing from the malware-infested disaster that has been the MSFT monopoly on the OS front? Having a “monoculture” is dangerous to the internet. To make sure it remains healthy we must have open standards with many implementations (closed or free–doesn't matter as long as standards are respected), and in that respect Flash is the enemy of the Internet.

Seriously? IE supports all this stuff perfectly well? There sure are a lot of red boxes in its column at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layo….

The fact is, HTML5 will not have enough penetration and uniformity across browsers to warrant public facing work for several more years. As I have asked elsewhere, can you point me to a single HTML5 site that a client actually paid to have developed?

I have nothing against open standards, but the “many implementations” is a complete nightmare to develop for. Have you ever had to build a CSS layout that looks identical in IE, Firefox, Safari and Opera? It is near impossible.

All software has bugs and that will never change. Unless you are developing for a closed audience (coporate intranet, etc) you are always at the mercy of someone else to provide a patch.

I agree. There's no indication that something as complex as canvas is HTML5 is going to be any more stable than AS3. Using AS3 to make something complex as a game makes the developer's life much easier than making it with JavaScript, which as long as it's developed by different vendors will not behave the same.
What I want from Adobe to make AS3, language wise, on par with Java.

Closed doesn't mean no native apps, but then I'm sure you knew that before you wrote this. Everyone was complaining because the iPhone wasn't open to just any native app, only those Apple deemed acceptable. That's why I wouldn't buy one then and why I refuse to buy Apple's closed crap today.

Must you use expletives to make your point?

I totaly agree. Adobe should Kill Flash and instead have their developer tools export to HTML5/Javascript/CSS. That is the best way to save their products.

[...] The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it – Uncompiled Thoughts This entry was posted in lifestream. Bookmark the permalink. Comments are closed, but you can leave a trackback: Trackback URL. « Daily Digest for January 30th [...]

Somehow I think if you are submitting patches for important bugs they'll be integrated much more quickly than 6 months.

I'll bet you 100 pints Adobe already has this in the works in their Lab. They've shown that they're unafraid to target other platforms other than Flash Player.

However, there's not a chance in hell they're going to kill Flash and deploy your solution without HTML5 support on the #1 browser in the world.

Of course they are, they showed a demo of it last October. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v69S22ZBBqA&feat…

Refreshing. I agree completely. Thank you.

98% according to Adobe. Linux is on AT LEAST 5-10% of desktops, and the Flash support sucks.

And agreed about this article being a bit forward and ahead of the game, but in two years, this article could be spot on, just not now.

I would say next year, there is going to be penetration. “Several more years”? Think Internet time…No way will it be that long.

Yeah, obviously this kind of thing can't happen overnight. User adoption needs to continue to shift more towards modern browsers. But I do think it is a solid direction to move towards.

Funny to see the desperation of wanting Flash to die because Ipad doesn't support it. Its up to each person to use what software/plugin they want. People has ported Doom to Flash, made music synthesizers etc etc and you see bouncing color circles and line-graphics in slow canvas-experiments. Great if you don't need Flash to see videos or there become better standards. Its not Adobe that afraid, its those who want to see Ipad as the ideal solution.

The HTML5 approach is good but I am not sure it is viable for every kind of application. For example the video codec incompatibility between browsers (h264 vs Theora)

Flash, Java/Java FX and Silverlight faces the same problems (deployment/cross-platform compatibility). From all of these Java FX seems to be the most robust, although Java deployment ease is currently not even as good as that of Flash. However, Java works very well cross-platform, Windows, Linux, OS X are almost equally well supported. True, Flash is dominant in rich-web deployment today.

Youtube is already supporting HTML5 video. Right now, if your browser supports it.

By the time Adobe could get “export to HTML5″ working, IE 9 will support HTML5 video.

98% of web browsers have it installed, maybe, but I suspect at least 15% (and growing) have Flashblock installed. If you want to create a rich web page in the future you're going to do it in HTML5 and CSS3, and Flash is going to be limited to casual games. Wouldn't it be nice if Adobe could help you get there?

In order for public facing work to target a platform, you need market penetration. IE8 was released less than a year ago, and supports virtually none of the HTML5 feature set. Even if IE9 is released in 2010 (highly doubtful) and supports all of HTML5, how long before enough of your audience uses it that you can get paid HTML5 work? “Several” may be optimistic. Hell, by most estimates IE6 is still around 10% of the market! I don't know what kind of clients you have, but the ones I've worked with would rarely shut out 10% of the market, much less 30-40% that will likely represent IE < 9 for quite some time.

I I think the real question here is whether ADobe will have any choice but to move to support HTML5 technologies. Flash is just as big a moving target as anything else, it is an extra install to the browser – ask anyone who has built an e-commerce store whether they can afford to make it flash-only. The answer is they can't – even by Adobe's estimates 98% support (which is completely false, I have to install flash for many friends and family) 2% of a million visitors is a lot to turn away. Of course HTML5 technologies currently have a smaller market share, but as they mature this will not be the case. Every web user has HTML4 capability, in 5-7 years they will have HTML5- but Adobe will remain a plugin. By this point Adobe would become irrelevant – and thus so would the tools they produce (remember they sell the tools, not the plugin!). Alos Adobe do not seem to have the willpower/resources to support all platforms (iphone, android, linux based netops, tvs etc) as these become more prevalent Adobe's market share might shrink further – whereas in all likelihood HTML5 support will only broaden. If Adobe do not move to make a decent HTML5 authoring tool, then someone else will – and then they will end up like Quark did. I don't think they are that stupid -if Flash CS supported HTML5 authoring it would ends down be the best authoring tool for future web technologies and thus trample on any competitors before they get of the ground. Remember once again that Adobe make no money on the Flash plugin – only on the tools used to produce the content, if the platform changes so must they. I think a good comparison here is companies which provide programming IDE's – such as Zend. Zend Studio is a fantastic authoring tool, and is made better by close intergration with Zend Framework (and naturally PHP) but if ZF was closed source, or PHP required a plugin then it would be irrelevant – you may as well use .net and not make your users mess around with a plugin. Adobe were forced to write a plugin because nothing better was out there – but as that changes and browser become capable of native support for rich-applications then the plugin becomes irrelevent and Adobe do not need to waste any resources on it, when they could focus on their core business – toolchains. And for those who worry about IE support for HTML5 – this is a non-argument. The more Microsoft drags it's heels on this the more IE becomes marginalized. Device manufactuers, system builders and user are no longer willing to put up with this and will just install something else. In fact one might argue why MS needs to bother with IE – it is also making it's money in toolchains and server tech – fighting the closed source IE vs open standards is not making it any money. It would be better focusing on making great tools for developers and easy to use server tech – but deploy to HTML5 open standards, here it can compete wonderfully – instead of becoming marginalized.

on my late 2009 Macbook Pro Flash takes some 70% CPU with a typical youtube Video.
As to netbooks, I have an Asus EeePC 901, neither with Windows XP nor with Ubuntu NBR is it fast enough so I could play flash games, but it makes nice slide shows from youtube videos

Then I have a Palm Pre which will get flash probably this month, let's see if Adobe can deliver on a 600MHz ARM8 core what it can't on a 1.6GHz Intel Atom. I expect battery life below one hour and a really hot shell.

“Your browser does not support the audio element.”

WebOS 1.3.5.2

Got a flash site to try?

flashblock rocks!!!
I do not like when stupid flash animation that is all over the web page i am browsing eats my cpu, memory and the rest of my system resources. I simply do not need that!
: )

There are things that Flash is good for, and Flash uses that are completely *wrong* The problem is, the wrong uses have well outnumbered the appropriate ones. Flash should never be used for banner ads. Flash should **NEVER** become the sole interface for a web site. If Flash is used for navigation, there MUST be alternative means of navigating a site, or an alternative site should be provided. Developers who make their sites unusable without Flash should be taken out to the shed and smacked around for a few hours until they learn.

The best way to understand the correct use of Flash is to look at the name of the product itself: *FLASH*. Not “meaningful content”, not “thoughtful discourse”, but “Flash”. As in something fleeting and ephemeral. It was only meant to dress-up sites, to add color and decoration *AFTER* the real content and substance was added to a site. A site that relies heavily on Flash is just that; ephemeral and meaningless.

[...] The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it Having done several years of Flash development and having worked with many Flash developers, the recent controversy between Apple and Adobe over Flash on the iPad is very amusing to me. First, there are a few arguments that I want to address directly: But Flash is the only way to deploy a consistent cross platform solution! [...]

Sure, have flash output to SVG etc, but why should they not also output to swf? Bigotry, plain and simple. Some people have a distasteful desire to restrict the web to their own narrow minded vision and want to exclude -choice- and destroy -freedom- for developers to do whatever they want. Whether they are right or wrong to deploy java, or silverlight or flash is neither here nor there – they should be able to make that choice for themselves unhindered by religious crusaders and uneducated lynch mobs.

Can html5 do any of e.g
http://www.splashup.com/splashup/
http://aviary.com/tools
http://www.soundation.com/studio

Anybody that says Flash is obsolete has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are a cretin. It does, and will continue to provide, advanced functionality that otherwise would be unavilable on the web. Sure, there are lowball, small minded developers who can't see beyond their cosy and safe little world of html, as there are ignorant blog opinionists that will continue to spread FUD as fact, and haul down the free spirits and adventurers who look past the edges of their flat earth.

Here's a list of html5 'features' and how it equates to when flash implemented them (makes HTML5 seem to be 'obsolete' before it ever gets ratified in however many years time)

Audio Playback – Flash 4 in 1999
Video Playback – Flash MX in 2002
Canvas (2D Drawing) – Flash 1 in 1996
Offline Storage – Flash MX in 2002

You say that you have 'several years of Flash development', seems to me that if you're not aware of the stuff HTML5 cannot do that Flash can, then you're a bullshitter or beginner that is dubiously trying to qualify their opinion with the claim. I bet most of the bugs you claim were just down to this too.

So the truly talented and cutting edge innovators pushing the boundaries of what can be done on the web, are supposed to step back 10 years because design bigots are drunk on apple koolaid and think the glacial pace of web standards reform will solve everything. When HTML5 is ratified in another few years, flash will have moved even further ahead. Some will use it, some won't. But you want to deprive them of their vote.

Whatever happened to freedom of choice, letting developers pick and choose what ever technology they wanted to?

People like yourself have become the brown shirts of the web, burning books, chanting hate, everybody must be conform to their narrow minded utilitarian web standards master race. Another blog bigot says burn the Flash witch!

[...] más radicales se fueron por la nota de fácil difusión. Adobe para salvar Flash lo tiene que matar decía Steven Wei. La gran validez de su argumento radica en que hablamos de un desarrollador [...]

Your reactionary prattle (we're all cretins and bigots who think Flash isn't perfect, eh?) doesn't seem to require a lengthy response, but having done Flash development for 5+ years and having developed kiosk applications while working for the author of this post, I'd just like to mention this: http://userprimary.net/user/2009/02/11/flash-fl…. While you are coming up with new racism-oriented insults, we're trying to find solutions. When any developer who politely requests that Adobe adhere to some semblance of the standards currently in place on the web to avoid making our jobs hellish is thought to be “burning books”, then we've entered the realm of the nonsensical. There are issues with the Linux Flash player that cannot be chalked up to developer error: Google it.Trust me, Steve knows what he is talking about. He's incredibly well researched and fair-minded, and the number of years he's worked in Flash probably exceeds the number of rational arguments you've made in a lifetime. Apple is not denying Adobe freedom of choice. They're just denying them the right to drain away battery life and CPU with work better done by a GPU.

Well said. Have you emailed this article directly to Adobe? I suspect they are already thinking in these terms already – but maybe providing options for HTML5 and JavaFX, etc in the robust platform they've already created. Please be aggressive, and get this in front of them. It's necessary. Thanks again. Bravo.

[...] más radicales se fueron por la nota de fácil difusión. Adobe para salvar Flash lo tiene que matar decía Steven Wei. La gran validez de su argumento radica en que hablamos de un desarrollador [...]

[...] about the death of Flash, but the return of browser innovation Feb.06, 2010 in Uncategorized My previous post on the Flash controversy brought up some interesting comments that I thought warranted further [...]

[...] next. so its close (at last!) in reply to weheartgames #The best way to save Flash is to kill it. http://www.stevenwei.com/2010/01/31/the-best-way-for-adobe-to-save-flash-is-by-killing-it/ #We have to release an iphone game before the 28th to get an awesome freebie from Adobe. #What if [...]

[...] o post The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it de Steven Wei ele cita o caso do OS X em que qualquer requisição HTTP retorna o status 0. Se [...]

[...] más radicales se fueron por la nota de fácil difusión. Adobe para salvar Flash lo tiene que matar decía Steven Wei. La gran validez de su argumento radica en que hablamos de un desarrollador [...]

I think it would be great for Adobe to develop an authoring environment similar to flash but for the HTML5 / Java webspace. They already have several components in the current dreamweaver scheme. I think for many, it's all about workflow. I remember when Adobe introduced “smart objects” and everybody lost their freakin minds about how cool it was that you could nest objects in separate documents and update them all at once. It's only a matter of time before they build in these capabilities to their authoring environments. I'm already seeing photoshop and illustrator starting to merge. Before long, we'll have a whole new set of merged tool names (Phillistrator™, FlashWeaver™, PremierEffects™)

Adobe, like Apple, is a smart and innovative company that has seen technology rise and fall. They have created several innovative products. Some have worked and worked for years (photoshop, illustrator). And some…not so much (remember Atmosphere 3D? GoLive? LiveMotion?) Same with Apple (G4 Cube?). I think in many ways, their current product model works well, and they will continue developing modular technologies based on consumer demand.

A few years ago, we had no idea what technologies would be brought to run in Flash, and I don't think Adobe did either. It's incredible to see what people end up doing with the tools you give them. As in this post, look at the App Store. Apple had no idea what people would make the iPhone do. Now, they have had to shift their model a bit to fit the market. Apple is trying to create the best possible customer experience for their products…and I guess Flash has some bugs that make it more unstable on these devices. Overall, I do not agree with Apple's attempt at “policing” content…since in the interim we DON'T have these better authoring environments, but the internet monster continues to churn, and Adobe is already planning its next move. Could be something even more incredible than we imagine (Dreamweaver supports HTML6! AND, everytime you successfully complete a project, the software calls your mom, gives her the ingredients to the most fantastic cupcake ever, and she bakes it for you. Come to think of it, I think a baked good project model is better for everyone.)

Actually, strike all that. Google is going to become self-aware in about a year anyway…then, none of this will matter because we'll just be building what google wants to see….or are we doing that already?

[...] The most appropriate approach for Adobe to save Flash is by murdering it – Uncompiled … [...]

As a flash developer the performance of the new ie9 beta scares me… In a few years html5 is able to do what flash does now. So i agree on the fact that Adobe should invest in building a html5 based editor environment so i can continue to develop the ria's i develop right now in flash.

Author of Article… you're full of it, because The Flash Plugin… IS FLASH.
It's a cross-platform hardware-accelerated content reader, renderer, and scripting language runtime, etc., that has NOTHING to do with a static, bloated, ancient text-based document format (HTML).

The Flash plugin, essentially IS a web browser. It has its own content model and display hierarchy
(SWF vs HTML), it's own rendering engine (capable of GPU acceleration and pixel shaders), and it's own scripting language (ActionScript 3 vs. JavaScript…. and ActionScript 3 beats the ass of JavaScript any day). It can even directly connect to a custom port over a socket.

Just because Flash happens to be implemented as a plugin, doesn't mean it's JUST a plugin. The advantage of being implemented as a plugin, is that you can piggyback on existing browser technologies, such as the implementations of HTTP and HTTPS communication protocols and other features that aren't really a part of the CONTENT RENDERING AND INTERACTION systems. The best thing for the WEB, would be for browsers to implement HTML as a plugin too…. so I could keep my favorite browser while also selecting my favorite HTML renderer. Wouldn't it be nice to keep your favorite browser, even if its default HTML plugin sucked… by loading a better HTML plugin. It would be nice to have that as a plugin. Screw your plug-in-phobia. Also, SWF is an open format, so in theory, other people CAN build their own flash plugins.

And FLASHBLOCK wouldn't be possible without FLASH!!! Isn't it nice to have ads delegated to a plugin you can block? If Flash goes away, those same ads will be re-created in HTML5, and you won't be able to block them so easily, as they'll be indistinguishable from the rest of the content on the page! (hahaha, Flash is NEVER going away… I'll single-handedly build a new Flash Player myself from the open SWF standard if Adobe stops supporting it… if it doesn't release the source code first. It's far too valuable as a web app dev platform, even for internal company use).

You're a dumbass. Adobe has compiled to NATIVE APPS for YEARS (see Windows Projector (exe) and Mac Projector (hqx)). Compiling to a JAVASCRIPT-BASED APP would be a TOTAL PERFORMANCE FAIL. Not to mention, it would be technologically impossible, since JavaScript doesn't provide core features (e.g. access to GPU APIs, etc.) to implement the entire Flash Runtime.

I’ve been well engrossed in both HTML/Flash for a long time now.  I’ve seen how both technologies have evolved throughout the years.  HTML(5) is making great strides.  Major browser vendors are finally working together to standardize the web (WHATWG).  In effect, browsers are coming up with new version more frequently and companies like Google Apps are no longer supporting legacy browsers (e.g. IE7).  HTML 5 is structured in such a way that it allows legacy browsers to still render correctly, so it’s very much able to be used.  This is great news.

News Flash! (no pun intended) Flash SWF’s have been open since May 2008.  Flash has a mature, (real) cross-platform, gpu-accelearted, strong-typed OOP language that will very soon have a robust 3D API (Adobe Molehill).   HTML will take a LONG time for it to have these features.  Not only are browser vendors slow in adopting standards, but there are still tons of users still using legacy browsers.  Even if the canvas tag were finally supported by all browsers, it is still a very primitive 2D renderer (it doesn’t even support layering, it’s like a MS Paint program).  HTML’s WebGL is still an EXPERIMENTAL technology.  

Here’s my point: For a highly animated, interactive, feature rich WEB APPLICATION, I would use Flash.  For SEO (crawling), accessibility, semantic-oriented WEB SITES that are to be exposed to a wide audience (esp. ipad/iphone), use HTML 5.  Of coarse, considering the specific requirements of every unique project is really the basis in which to choose the right tool for the job.  To say that Flash needs to be completely replaced by HTML is preposterous, they both have advantages and disadvantages. Also, competition is the reason these technologies are growing so fast. 

Thanks Steven for this article – although you HTML 5 fan boys make me sick, you’ve stimulated an important discussion that’s on many web designer/developers minds.

PS>  I agree, Adobe needs to spend more resources in making kick-ass HTML/CSS/JS tools.  Dreamweaver is lacking in this department.  But as it’s been said in previous comments, Adobe is working towards it.